The Not So Black and White Real Estate Podcast

and then we might say, "Look, the way I

see it is you have three options."

What you could do is you could keep

looking and keep looking and

keep looking and keep looking

and hope that some form of absolute

perfect unicorn house shows

up in some way, shape or form

and potentially put yourself into a

situation that you have to resign a lease

or potentially put yourself into a

situation that even

when you do find something

it's going to be

significantly more than this one.

Alternatively, you could give up on the

idea of owning a house in its entirety,

you could rent for the rest of your life,

or what you could do is take this house

that we both know you love,

that fits inside your budget, that will

deliver you the kind of lifestyle that

you're looking for your family

and out of those three options, which one

do you think your future self is going to

be most thankful for?

You're listening to the Not So Black and

White Real Estate Podcast

with your hosts, Sir Colin

Campbell and Gary A. McGowan.

Good day, good day, good day.

It's your host, Colin Campbell here with

Gary A. McGowan, and you're tuned into

the Not So Black and

White Real Estate Podcast.

And today we have a very influential

person, someone who tells you exactly

what to say and how to say it.

The author, none

other than Phil M. Jones.

Thank you for having me here.

Of course.

Like a big hyped up intro like that.

This is the best not to suck, right? This

is the best not to suck.

Wow, we started high.

We just need to keep it high now.

OK, Phil, both Colin and I

have seen you speak many times.

Is it a true honor and pleasure to have

you in person here, not only

in Canada, but on the podcast?

For those, and they must be hiding under

a rock, that's all I can say.

For those that don't know you, tell us a

little bit about you in like 30 seconds.

Oh, man. I've been in business since I

was 14 years of age, being passionately

and looking to understand

what's the difference between people that

do good and the ones

that really crush it.

And in all the different arenas that I've

worked in, it's outside

of hard work and hustle.

I've learned that the difference between

those that do good and

the ones that do great

are the ones that know exactly what to

say, when to say and

how to make it count.

And I've built a career looking to learn

how some people find the edge in many of

life's critical moments.

Written 11 best selling books, spoken in

59 different countries, over 800

different industries,

sold about 3 million books out in the

world and are committed to helping people

make more of their conversations count.

So what I'm hearing is you're a big deal.

Nah, it's not what my household thinks.

Yes, for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

There are times and

moments I get to be a big deal.

So you still have to do the

dishes and take out the trash.

Yeah, some of the time. Some of the time.

So before you got on, we were debating

what soccer team you actually back.

So let's hear it from you.

So it's got to be a London team, yeah?

No. No.

Why do we make these world

assumptions about people?

I told you a menu.

Right. I might not even like this sport.

It's true. It's very true. But we're

going to still make the assumption.

So he's into cricket then.

It is the point I'd make is

to stop making assumptions.

Fair enough. OK, we're

getting schooled already at 11.

I like that. So are you into soccer?

Football.

Football.

The game you play with your feet, right?

Yeah, football.

I played the sport as a

kid. I enjoy the game.

I was semi a Queens Park

Rangers fan as a child.

I worked in professional

soccer for some of my career.

So I was head of retail and commercial

director for

Birmingham City Football Club

and Leicester City Football Club.

And when you see a game from the inside

out, it changes some perspective.

Interesting.

I then traveled the world.

I now live in America.

And as much as I love the sport, I'm not

fanatical about anything, which.

But but I go to a game

and have a good time.

I'm just going to choose to back the team

that either I like the jersey of most

or whoever my buddies appoint,

particularly if he's behind the bed.

Well, there you have it, my friends.

So so I can be bought

is what I can be bought.

There you have it. There you have.

I'm curious about that realization that

you had that when you see,

I can't think of another phrase other

than top performers

or successful business

people, what sets them apart?

How did you determine

it's what they're saying?

Hmm.

I was in leadership roles from a very

early part of my life,

so I was running big sales teams at 18,

19, 20, 21 years of age

where everybody was older.

I couldn't command any respect.

I was 18 and looked like I

was 15 and got all the pushback.

So anything I was trying to

get anybody to take action on,

I couldn't directly offer advice.

So I started studying the other people

around that were getting great results.

And what I would say, for

example, is I'd say, Colin,

I know that one of the things you're

looking at better at is X, Y and Z.

And I've I've been watching what Gary's

doing and and Gary's top of class.

And there are three things that Gary does

that are different to what you do.

You like to know what those things are.

And it became my leadership

style is I would offer advice

through the proxy of what I'd learned

from studying high performers.

And that was the way that I

could I could offer up ways

other people would do things.

And then you start to see patterns

because everybody thinks it's

it's how much output you put

and having the right mindset and good

levels of product knowledge.

And those are all

important, but they're table stakes.

It becomes a point where that's just what

gets you in the game.

It doesn't get you on the podium.

And then you'd start to see whether it

was a leadership

scenario or a sales scenario

that there would be overlapping sequences

of words that just worked.

They created brevity or they allowed

somebody to get the decision quicker.

And the irony is you learn more and more

about this is people try to create

certainty in other people's circumstances

by pushing their agenda.

And it creates chaos.

Whereas actually, if you

learn to show up with chaos,

the other person will

help create your order.

And that's just fascinated me for now.

What is 20, 25 years worth of obsession

around how words change worlds.

And one of the phrases and this is just a

start a little snippet about something

that you taught me to say, what are your

sessions that I was sitting in is some of

the things we say to our clients is now

you're creating more chaos.

Quite usually that's

the case I find right.

And I'm sure that's why the book exists

and things like that.

One of the lines I now teach because of

you and help with our agencies.

When when they have a client that is

struggling with a decision is.

Most people in your shoes.

How did you come up with that?

I love how you phrase that and it almost

disarms people in a way.

Is that is that the objective there?

Tell me tell me a little

bit about that backstory.

I mean, you're talking about the power of

the label, most people.

And it is a technique called labeling.

We live in a world that we try to say

that we don't like labels.

But could you imagine walking into a

pantry full of items that aren't labeled

and then being asked to

prepare a meal quickly?

It would be a challenge.

So as much as we

don't like labels, we do.

We don't like misappropriated labels.

We don't like the abuse of labels.

We don't like the mass

kind of badging of labels.

So most people is a label that can allow

somebody to create an acceptance

without it feeling like an absolute.

A simple piece of advice I give to

everybody listening right now,

and this is going to

sound counterintuitive.

It's definitely ironic is

to never speak in absolutes.

Because when you speak in

absolutes, you create friction.

If I said most people, well, that's

easier to buy than everybody.

Right.

Ever been in a situation

where somebody says to you, like,

Colin, you always do this.

And you're like, well, no, not always.

Like yesterday, I put

the toilet seat down.

I did do it.

I remember specifically that I did it.

Or like you never load

the dishwasher correctly.

And you're like, hang on.

I got photo evidence.

It was 2006.

Look, look.

So when you speak in absolutes, what

happens is you create friction.

When you can speak in

anywhere in that grayscale,

which is funny that we're on

the black and white podcast.

Not so black and white.

So maybe we get that great for you.

Yeah, we get so we get so.

So what it allows us to be able to do is

is to create numbers out of words

and play a game with me for a second.

If there are 100 people in a

room and I said most people,

how many am I talking about?

I went to the 80 20 right away into 60.

OK, OK.

If I said many people,

how many am I talking about?

Sixty five ish 50.

What if I said some 10 a handful of five?

Almost everybody.

Oh, 90, 90 next to nobody.

Oh, one, a good number.

Yeah, 99.

Yeah, I get it.

But I get no numbers.

I gave you no numbers

and you found numbers.

And that's the math

sometimes that can exist in words.

When you're looking for people to

organize chaos, you can

use words to create numbers

that apply logic to emotional puzzles

that allow people to

make their mind up quicker.

So most people is just

an example of a label.

But I gave you another 10, 12, 15 there

that you could see how you could organize

the thought in other people.

And instead of everybody and

nobody and always and never.

And like my favorite is favorite.

I mean, one of the hardest

questions to ever answer.

People do this on podcasts.

It's like, like, what

was your top takeaway?

Or what was your favorite?

What was your number one?

Or what is your best?

And you're like, are you kidding me?

How are you supposed to rationalize every

thoughtful thought

you've ever had in your

whole life?

Organize those thoughts, sequence the

list and tell you the

number one and be honest.

You're going to lie.

So we'll do it in the

session here in a short while.

Is I won't ask people

what the top takeaway is.

I won't ask them what their are.

I say what is something that maybe is

bubble around towards

the front of your mind that

you're thinking about maybe executing

inside your business or inside your life?

What is something you're thinking?

You're definitely going to take action.

I like it.

I like it.

Colin, as we as we wrap up

here, what do you got for Phil?

Well, what I'm hearing is Phil, secret to

success is first started with pattern

recognition.

Sure.

And this is me putting it into a box so

that I can understand it.

Yeah.

Pattern recognition pattern utilization.

This is how the most

successful people are doing it.

Now, where does pattern creation come in?

Where now you're creating the patterns,

you're no longer looking at some of the

most successful people.

You're looking at it as this is the

formula and this will create success.

I think in and all of that becomes

something that doesn't get

talked about often enough,

which is obsession.

Where do you become obsessed about

something that you think and

feel about it to a ridiculous

level beyond more than anybody else could

believe as possible?

And the reason that most people get to

any level of success

when you when you really

dissect is that they found an obsession

on it that was unhealthy.

It's like beyond the

realms of being okay.

So how do you then take something that

you have interest and

knowledge and then obsession

about and then turn it into something

that you can share with others?

Well, the way I think about it is music.

It becomes a point in your life where

you're like, I like music.

Then I like to listen to music.

Then I like to buy music.

Then you might like to go to some shows

and see music being performed.

And then what you might think is I wonder

if I could make music

and you hear conscious

incompetence pretty darn quickly.

And you're like, ah, dang, I'm not good

enough to be able to do this.

And then you mess around and you're like,

okay, that's a note,

that's a note, that's a note.

Then maybe you take some lessons and you

learn to be able to

perform a song or two.

Now you think you're a musician and then

you meet a musician and

you realize you're not a

musician.

You know how to play

chopsticks on the piano.

So then your competence level changes

again because the ceiling gets raised up.

So what you then look to be able to do is

you say, well, hold on.

I now need to learn how to understand how

these notes become scales.

And then I need to learn how to play

multiple different songs.

And then you need to start to be able to

say, well, now I can compose.

And then you start to say, well, what's

it like to play jazz?

But you've got to go through

all of those different lessons.

And before you can break the rules,

you're going to know the rules.

Before you can learn something new, you

often have to unlearn something old.

And what people have learned to talk

about with all things

exactly what to say is it's

like learning a new language.

People are like, I read the book.

I'm like, good for you.

Good for you.

Well done.

You read a book that

takes you an hour to read.

Bravo.

And they'll tell me things like I took

all the sequences of words.

I put them into one email.

What do you think?

And I'm like, oh my God,

that's just inside voice.

It's like taking the contents of Las

Vegas, all you can eat buffet,

putting in a smoothie maker

and expecting it to taste good.

It's not going to come out great.

So what you're looking to better get to

is to understand method.

And what we've managed to now distill

down within exactly what to say is a

method that people can

apply to almost any given conversation.

The books here like let's make it fun.

Put me on the spot.

What is any scenario that you might be

looking to influence or

persuade anybody to do anything?

Give me something.

I'm indecisive whether to buy this house

and I need words of

encouragement to take action.

Okay, so this is an indecisive buyer that

is 60, 80% towards there,

but they're laced in

uncertainty and nervousness.

Yes.

I would take the book and I would say one

sequence of words at a time.

Look, I'm not sure if it's for you, but

like how open minded

would you be to learning how

others in your scenario would approach a

situation like this?

They're like, yeah, I'm up for it.

I'm like, well, what do you know about

the potential consequences of waiting

and not moving forward?

And they're like, I got no idea.

I'd say, well, how would you feel if

somebody else was living in

this house that wasn't you?

I'd be like, man, I'd be pissed.

I'd be like, well, just imagine the

difference that you

could make for your family.

If you define some courage to be able to

move forward with us on this time,

I'd say, well, when would it be a good

time for us to be able to

start working on the offer?

And I'm guessing you haven't got around

to sending across

your proof of funds yet.

And we'd look at any simple swap that

could show up in that

area or people in this world.

There are those that think the Sunday is

a good idea and those

that take action on the

ideas that they know are right for them.

And I bet you're a bit like me that what

you'd rather do is you'd rather live

forward and fail forward and be

responsible for your own

actions and your own discipline than

leave a gain to chance.

And if you're serious about home

ownership, then there's a strong

possibility that this is the

right home for you.

Don't worry.

You're bound to be nervous right now.

Most people in your situation would

definitely be nervous and

second guessing at this given

point in the transaction.

The good news is this

is perfectly normal.

And the reason that you work with an

experienced professional

real estate agent like me is to

help you navigate these

next steps more freely.

So what happens next is

that we prepare the offer.

We present it to the listing agent.

And after us putting our best foot

forward, we cross our

fingers and hope that that first

move gets us the move

that we're looking for.

They say, well, is that all it takes?

You say, well, really?

What makes you say that?

They say, well, I'm still a little

nervous like around this time.

Like, well, look, look, look

before you make your mind up.

Would it help if you understood the

consequences of waiting?

They're like, yeah, I'm sure it would.

And you then say, well, if I can show you

what is likely to

happen to real estate prices,

if you don't make a move now, then will

you feel more confident

in your decision today?

They're going to say, yeah, sure.

I'm going to say, well, do

you think we've done enough?

They're like, yeah,

we've done more than enough.

I'm going to be like,

hey, just one more thing.

You couldn't do me a

small favor, could you?

They're like, yeah, sure. What's up?

I'm like, well, could you think of maybe

just one person that is also

nervously thinking about considering

potentially making a move right now?

And just out of curiosity, exactly who

was it you were thinking?

But all I did is just run the book

through one scenario.

And that is it, guys.

That is why you need to pick up this book

and learn from one of

the best in the industry.

Phil M freaking Jones.

That was brilliant.

And what you should see is

that's me just playing scales.

That's all that is.

That's me playing scales

through a known moment or scenario.

So I've been looking forward to this

conversation for a long time,

actually. Yeah, quite a long time.

It's a thrill to have you here in Canada.

Thank you for being on our podcast.

Remind us of your Instagram handle.

I know that's where I follow you.

Many other people should as well.

If you want to continue the conversation,

let us know that we were in the Not So

Black and White podcast.

Come find me at Phil M Jones UK and we

can continue the conversation from there.

Excellent.

That's Phil M Jones.

Of course, that's Sir Colin Campbell.

I'm Gary McGowan.

We'll see you

everywhere in the next episode.

Goodbye for now.

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